Ive got a version of Ragnar at work that loads but is invisible but if i change it from a dll to a spacecraft 3 ini then it shows up fine.so i guess its in the dll somehow.ill try it at home and see if it works on the new computer which has never had microsoft VC+ on it.....Well its the next day and after i got home last night i tried the ragnar on my new system and it worked perfectly even though i never installed VC+ on the home sys so either i have a different version of Ragnar at work or the comp at work is just plain screwy.?L8R